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| Diane Esshin Rizzetto began studying with Sojun Mel Weitsman in 1980 at the Berkeley Zen Center, where she stayed until 1985. In 1985, she began study with Charlotte Joko Beck and received Dharma transmission from Joko in 1994. In 1994 she was installed by Joko as abbot of the Bay Zen Center. She, along with Joko's two other heirs, founded the Ordinary Mind Zen School, a non-denominational approach to cultivating awareness in daily activities. She is the author of Waking Up to What You Do: A Zen Practice for Meeting Every Situation with Intelligence and Compassion, on how incorporating Buddhist precepts into our daily lives can lead us to engage in events in a more mindful way. |
“There’s an old Buddhist saying, “The only way out
is through,” This dead spot really takes us right into the heart
of it. Transformative power comes out of this place that I think is
nothing other than magic”
EW: What are the precepts?
DR: Unity and peace and a loving heart—that’s our natural
state. That isn’t even something we need to aspire to. It’s
already there. Nevertheless, there is an aspiration into seeing what
disconnects us.
EW: The precepts bring us back to our real nature.
DR: Exactly. If I’m working and focusing on the precept,
“I take up the way of not holding onto anger,” then it’s
always going to be present in my daily life. The point is not to not
get angry, but when I do get angry, say “What’s going on?”
EW: That’s a critical distinction. Why do people get the
idea that it’s about stifling the emotion? It’s about the
consciousness around it.
DR: Right.
EW: Why do you suppose that happens?
DR: Perfection. Spiritual materialism—we switch over from
the nice car, house and clothes to being a nice person.
EW: You use the “dead spot,” the place where the trapeze
artist must hang at zero point, waiting before grabbing the next bar
as a metaphor for those places of non-action and not knowing in our
lives, the places that often cause us the most anxiety. How can we find
the power and creativity in these moments?
DR: If we can muster enough courage to hang in there for two
seconds we find that on the other side there’s an incredible amount
of strength. There’s an old Buddhist saying, “The only way
out is through,” This dead spot really takes us right into the
heart of it. Transformative power comes out of this place that I think
is nothing other than magic. I truly acknowledge that it’s not
easy because fear sets in; that’s why we keep running from it.
I’m not guaranteeing that we’re not going to feel the fear.
EW: There’s more space around the fear.
DR: Yes. I talk about developing the observer. The observer is
the mind that can watch itself. “Oh, look at that. He doesn’t
care about my time,” or whatever thought we are having to something
clicking on when the observer wakes up and says, “Oh there’s
a thought that he doesn’t care about my time.” It’s a
hair of a difference, but yet a giant difference in terms of awareness.
When we believe our thoughts, we’re working from inside that thought,
but the space that the observer creates is just a magnificent difference.
In that spaciousness, fear or anger can be held for a while and just
allowed. Through this something happens.
EW: Please define “requirements.”
DR: Human beings get messages about the way they are required
to be. It’s natural for the self-will to say, “What’s
the best way for me to survive?” “Well, if every time I cry
Mommy withdraws from me, I’d better learn to swallow hard.”
Of course, the child isn’t thinking that way logically, but that’s
what is getting read. Whatever strengths we are born with come to our
rescue.
EW: And that moves us right out of the experience.
DR: Yes. So there we are. As I say, it’s not planned. What
happens is that we forget it’s something we learned how to do,
and we begin to believe it’s who we are.
In practice, we start looking at these requirements as a way to avoid
what I call “core beliefs.” They’re really false core
beliefs, but nevertheless it’s a belief that something dreadful
will happen if this requirement isn’t kept. That’s when we
go into the dead spot and the way to freedom.
Interview by
Susanne Spitzer